Interview with Zijadin Sela, head of the Movement for Reform DPA Struga, March 19th, 2017.
CIVIL Media: What is your opinion on the post-election situation in the country and what are the proposals of DR DPA for exiting the crisis?
Sela: Unfortunately, the post-election situation did not resolve the crisis, on the contrary, I’d say that it has deepened it even further. And it is normal that we expected such a behavior, even more so when there is a greater number of politicians, acting with the instinct of self-defense, in defense of everything we have done in these ten years. It is clear that this tense situation has added even more tension, and the only people who have an interest in creating chaos are precisely those who want to avoid the responsibility of the Special Prosecutor’s Office. I think everyone needs to be accountable, or should have the right to prove their innocence before the bodies of justice, because Macedonia and the region, will have to return to the path of law, because it is the right format, in which citizens will be seen as free.
Where is the exit from the crisis …? There is no other way than in an institutional way. Ultimately, there are written rules in the country and they are very clear, and so is the position of the President, what is allowed and what is not allowed … I am a supporter of the idea that we don’t have to be very gentle with him, as well as with all the other political actors that are threatening with political crisis. We should not be upset about this issue, rather we need to follow the institutional way. The institutional way is very clear, the government and everything else is made by 61 MPs, at least 61 MPs, while the president has to give the mandate to those who have that majority, according to the Constitution and the jurisdiction, he’s not allowed to interfere in fictional themes, somewhere in party offices, destroying some of the unitary character, and so on. Something that has no relation to reality and the territorial integrity of the state, because the only integrity that will be destroyed, after you create a new majority and return the debate in the institutions, where it should be, is the integrity of corrupt politicians.
CIVIL Media: These days the public is turning around some of your statements from the past. I would like you to tell me the period of those statements, you probably know what is said and what you wanted to say with these statements?
Sela: So they are now turning many of my statements, not just one. And it is a collection of extracted contexts, depending on the context in which I gave those statements. And I just cannot go back now to justify all those statements that are circulating in the public, which aim to encourage the masses, to happen what is happening. I remember, it was exactly in November, the first day of the election campaign, one of my responses to a television debate with Mr. Angelov, it was my response to historical facts, because he entered history, he said that Albanians are newcomers in this country and that we are less than 20%. And I spoke about a few historical facts. Now, that statement is taken out of context and it’s served as they seek to serve it.
There are many statements. I see they have taken out some other statements too, that I will vandalize… they were building a port in the Municipality of Vevcani, and allegedly that I would break that port. For example, this statement was made, I think sometime in 2014, when the Municipality of Vevcani changed the entrance signs on the regional road in Veleshta only because they were written in Albanian also, they were written in two languages, Vevcani and Veleshta. They complained and removed the roadmaps, and meanwhile microphones were standing in front of me, as mayor of the municipality. Then I said that it was not in the Municipality of Struga, I have submitted a request to the Ministry of Local Government, and stated that if that part of the territory is in the Municipality of Struga, I will then return the bilingual boards, but that if a building is built without permission from the Municipality of Struga, it will be demolished. And now these statements are abused in various forms.
What is my position on these things …? Everything I say, I believe in it and mean it. It is not about that I now pull back somewhat from those things. There are many open questions here in Macedonia, which we have not yet sat down together to solve. I am a supporter of this idea, I’m not a coward who hides behind multiethnic Macedonia, and on the other hand everything I do it is for one national Macedonia. Today those who are using and is close to their hearts this multiethnic country, tomorrow will forget it and certainly they will not be interested in other ethnic communities, they will only be concerned about the political actors, exhibitors coming from these communities, and all that bound to one another is crime and corruption, family interests, and not the interest of the ethnic communities living in Macedonia.
Our joint declaration, the declaration of the Albanian political entities and the concepts that we as a movement for reform, and I as president of the movement, are that I have no right to deny one’s feelings. I believe in everyone’s right to self-determination for their identity. The nations are not born from God, they are born as a result of political circumstances. And now, it has created a nation with identity, which described itself as Macedonians, have their own language, and I have no problem with that. On the other hand, I’m glad for one thing, the fact that I am accused by people who build their careers on calls for gas chambers for an entire nation, I will gladly say that I am not like them. And that’s good.
CIVIL Media: What did all Albanian political parties that signed the Platform agreed to in the declaration? What was the exact deal?
Sela: The Declaration is public and there is nothing secret in it. Parties – signatories of the statement, in particular, agreed on mutual support on these issues, this election and subsequent elections. The right to use the language comes from the Ohrid Agreement and is not a novelty. On the other hand, the political actors, that took the right to enter and make subject for negotiations from something that is agreed long ago, normally they will have to face the responsibility in front of the citizens. I say that the current law on the use of the Albanian language, for example, is unconstitutional. Why? The Ohrid Agreement does not separate language spoken by more than 20% of the population, from writing it. Everywhere in the constitution, 5th amendment of the Constitution, which replaces Article 7 of the Constitution says that the language spoken by more than 20% of the population and the language is other than Macedonian and its alphabet is also official, as provided by this Article. And now, you cannot make a law, for example, will take as an example the 2008 law, which permitted the Albanian lawmaker to speak in Albanian language in parliament and on the other side not to allow him to write Albanian language and signs in the institutions and all the other materials to be Albanian. So it is unconstitutional to separate speaking and writing. And I say that this declaration only sets out the points on the letters “l” to fully implement what was signed 15 or 16 years ago.
The Joint declaration on the other hand, has the task to stop the exploitation that is done for years on a half of the population. I say that citizens from other ethnic communities are feeling equally exploited. Ultimately, the statement says a lot about the respect for the law on equal regional development, law voted by VMRO and DUI in 2009, which provides 1% of GDP to be divided into regions of equal development. And this law is not voted by Edi Rama, or Tirana, as one tries to characterize the joint declaration. It is a law voted here, with the votes of Nikola Gruevski and his deputies, and there is nothing controversial. The Commission is that it will ensure equal and proportional division of the budget.
There is no violation of the territorial integrity of any country or individual autonomy, it is for the citizen to see its toll in the form of investment in the country where he lives, at home, in their neighborhood, in their city. Not like now, when we have a problem with schools as far as the minimum conditions for the educational process, such as heating, electricity and benches that have not changed over thirty years, and on the other hand we have a project in downtown the capital, Skopje 2014, which grows to about a billion through investments made for it.
So this declaration, primarily, without confusions, refers to the relationship that the Albanian political parties need to build within themselves, and not to be divided as they were in these 25 years. That’s the way I understand it, and it has nothing to do with the Macedonian political parties. If we sit down and talk to them, respectively, for the language, for other subjects, I think that we should not compromise on these things, because we did compromises a very long time, about the language.
Ultimately, we often faced with questions such as our demands are very radical. No, it is not radical to have the right to demand to realize yourself, where you pay taxes like everyone else. Because we don’t divide ourselves by taxes. It is radical to protest and not allow others to realize their right.
So, the declaration refers to the relationships we need to build with each other as political entities, not to be mutual competition, in a contest about who would rather be part of the government, because in this form we compete the interest of the voters that did not vote. From now on, I think this should not be happening.
CIVIL Media: Why did you chose to sign the declaration (if signed) in Tirana? The Movement Besa says it is signed there, but we do not know whether it is really signed? And if it is, why is it signed there and not here? It’s about the Albanians in Macedonia …
Sela: I do not know what is the purpose of the Movement Besa, this issue needs to be directed to them. The Declaration isn’t signed, the declaration is cited or read, and composed in Alexander Palace. We agreed the declaration will be read at the same time on the same day by all political parties that accepted this declaration. Now the statements of the Movement Besa, as I see, serves only to those who are interested to continue the political crisis, to create chaos, which would save themselves, risking the lives of citizens. And I do not know, do not understand why they need to come up with such statements, wanting to imply everything around.
Albania, Tirana official, has never had an incorrect approach to Macedonia, though, the Constitution, the Prime Minister is obliged to take care of Albanians wherever they live. The only country in the region with which Macedonia does not have any problem as far as the identity, the name of the state, the church, etc. is Albania. Yes, Serbia has a problem with unresolved issues autocephalous church in Bulgaria – the question of identity and language, with Greece on the name issue … in Albania, there is no dispute. And the idea of including them here, I think even more by implication and regular repetition of a political entity that calls himself an Albanian political party, I think is wrong. The tendency is, it seems, for the joint declaration not to have the place it deserves.
But the joint statement does not bear the seal of Tirana, but it bears the stamp of Skopje. The Joint declaration of the Albanian political parties signed in 1991, at the time when Macedonia declared independence based on the withdrawal of rights of more than a third of the population who are Albanian. It is not a secret, the Constitution of 1974, Albanian was an official language in Macedonia, together with the Macedonian and Turkish. The right to use the flag as well. The local government really and truly was decentralized.
And now, without debate, without asking, Albanians were deprived of our rights. And I therefore insist to say that the joint statement resulting in subsequent political platforms of the Albanian parties in these 25 years, which contain more or less of these things from the joint declaration was signed in Skopje in 1991, when we claimed rights.
And, again in Skopje will have to return those rights, they will not return to Tirana or in any other country. Everything that is going on right now is a big fuss for nothing, by a president of a state, who calls himself so, and represents only the interests of one political entity. And, it is not the first time for him to act this way. In this way he behaved when he declared the infamous amnesty. And I do not know why should anyone contribute to the idea that something was signed in Tirana. It is not signed in Tirana, it’s original statement here. And it was signed in Skopje in 1991.
CIVIL Media: Still, you went to Tirana
SELA: In Tirana we had one meeting. And those kinds of meetings in these 25 years we have had continuously. All the political leaders meet with the prime ministers of Albania or political subjects from Tirana, as I believe that also other subjects from political parties from Macedonia do the same.
Also there are Serbian political parties that have regular contact with the government in Serbia, VMRO-DPMNE has a constant contact with political figures in Bulgaria, Serbia and it is not forbidden for this to happen, even more so if you consider that the road we are on is the European Union for which one of the main things are good neighbor relations, with everyone in the region. The current situation, doesn’t contribute to good neighboring relations.
CIVIL Media: According to you, who is creating the obstructions for exiting the political and institutional crisis ?
SELA: According to me? One group of people that are stuck in crime and corruption, and their interests include not having any legitimate institution because, little by little, the legitimacy of the local municipalities is before its end, and their bottom line is to save their own skin and the dirty treasure that they have accumulated in these years. And these people, they are few.
I call upon all of those people that have participated and joined the protests in an alleged defense of the unity and character of the state, defending the territorial integrity and defending a multiethnic Macedonia. I Appeal, do the same, there is no problem with that, but it shouldn’t be directed against entire people.
And those that in any way protect and serve them, are a handful of politicians that are very few and sadly are leading VMRO-DPMNE, and believe me they have no identity. The crime and corruption have no identity. No matter if it is a crime done by Albanians or Macedonian. The only identity that crime has is the interest, the money, making a heresy of the lives of the citizens and limiting the freedoms of the others. So this kind of identity is that which they are trying to protect, nothing more.
CIVIL Media: According to you, only VMRO-DPMNE is to blame for the obstructions for exiting the crisis, they are stuck alone in the criminal activities ?
SELA: It is not alright to generalize and say “VMRO-DPMNE”. That is not alright. I am not and I can’t be against political parties. In correlation with the provenance, in my opinion DR DPA is a party that has a right and center provenance and we still may have a feature and concrete relations considering that they are from the right center block as a political subject.
But this political subject really must go under real reforms in its lines. From now on, they need to not bother themselves with other parties all the time, and they need to stop making campaigns against whole groups of people here in Macedonia, the Albanians. But need to start with their own reforms.
And not just that, I don’t think and have the right to call out criminals, because I am not the one that knows all the details. I can have my suspicions, from observing what has been happening all these years. Still, the justice departments will have to be the ones that will say the last word. Not the politicized ones but the ones that will deal justice according to the Law and Constitution, as well as those that deal partisan and political justice.
And not only VMRO-DPMNE. Of course, VMRO-DPMNE wasn’t alone in the government, DUI was with them. Of course there might be other people in the ranks of these political subjects, in the lines of those that used the government. Now is the moment when they will have to answer for it. Without exception, on whichever party they belong to, on whatever ethnical community they belong to, everyone will have to answer before the justice department. I have said this publicly, that every member of parliament should voluntarily give up their immunity, so they can answer before the justice department.
CIVIL Media: Ultimately, we can see on the social networks that there are paramilitary formations being created from the initiative, or we don’t know who from, among Macedonians. What is your message especially for the Albanians, in these moments of crisis?
SELA: First and foremost, I want to urge the law enforcement community, prosecution and everyone, I have heard statements that they want to gather paramilitary units and those people do not deserve freedom. They should be immediately arrested and put to jail, where they belong. Against whom do they want to make these units?
What message would I have for the Albanians ? The Albanians should be very careful and monitor the situation. I repeat that we do not have demands to take anything from anyone. We want to realize ourselves and live our lives in future with dignity, equal, because in the end of the day, it’s the democracy in essence, to be equal to the other and not to position yourself in a situation of owners and slaves.
One thing is for sure, if they want to intimidate us with a paramilitary and such things, no, we will not be afraid. The only fear we have is for the future of our children in Macedonia.
And not only our children, but all children of all ethnic communities in Macedonia. You have to calm down the boiling blood, things need to be taken with more calmness, because it is not about violation of rights of others, but for the realization of all those who live here in Macedonia.
We lived as communities, even before a Macedonian state ever existed and had no other choice but to build our lives together here and now, but also in the future. All those who try these ways to reach a goal, the good of their community is not the thing they care for believe me, or the others. We live in another century and such forms do not bring anything.
The debate should be returned to the institutions as soon as possible. I am a follower of the idea that any debate should be opened, everything should be discussed, but not on the streets and ditches, but rather in parliament, where they belong in the debate. We should have a Parliament as soon as possible for it to start and do its job.
Dijana Tahiri
Camera: Dehran Muratov
