“Let us move forward with a constructive dialogue because for me good neighborliness is of great importance for Bulgaria, the Republic of North Macedonia and the entire Balkan region,” said Bulgarian Prime Minister Kiril Petkov in an interview with MIA ahead of his visit to Skopje tomorrow.
Mr. Petkov, thank you for the first interview for MIA, this is the first Prime Minister’s interview for the Macedonian media. These days, 30 years have passed since Bulgaria first recognized the independence of the Republic of Macedonia. 30 years later we have a completely different situation, what happened in the meantime?
– First of all, I would like to say that I am very pleased that Bulgaria was the first country to recognize the Republic of North Macedonia and its independence as a separate state and that in those 30 years I would personally be glad if we had even better progress than we have. , but now things depend on all of us and I hope that instead of looking at where the mistakes have been in the past 30 years we will start with a constructive dialogue to move forward because for me good neighborliness with the Republic of North Macedonia is of great importance for Bulgaria, for Republic of North Macedonia and for the entire Balkan region. I really believe that the more we work together, the more connection we have, the more our citizens communicate with each other, establish business cooperation, the better.
That communication between the citizens, I think it is not disputable at all and she I think has not stopped, we are constantly going to Sofia, you come to Skopje, there is no problem, but what disrupted that trust between people, where did so much fear come from, why?
– What I see as a problem that happened is that we did not cooperate enough together, but more politicians expressed, gave some declaration, some stories on both sides of the border, and in reality we did not finish the work we should have done . It is not normal for me as the Prime Minister of Bulgaria, if I want to use commercial airlines, to have to fly through Vienna to get to Skopje or Istanbul. It’s just going back and forth, it’s much more normal to have that airline. It is not normal not to have a railway connection, which will help move the trade exchange between Sofia and Skopje. It is not normal not to have a common cultural calendar. So instead of declarations and political speeches, now is the time to roll up our sleeves and say that we need to do a lot of work together, we need to end with the clear idea that only when we can really do that work can we guarantee true good neighborliness. , which will be guaranteed by our own peoples, and not so much by the politicians who are in power at that moment.
Politicians, as you say, see only their own profit, seen from the side, from Macedonia, it was incomprehensible for me to say, Bulgarian President Radev is scheduling a Security Council, I do not know if there was a Security Council for the pandemic, for Russian-Ukrainian relations , for the distance, because one gets the impression that Macedonia is the strongest, which can disrupt the security of Bulgaria, and yet we are NATO allies?
– In principle, I do not want to go into comments, I am sure that all of us politicians, who are responsible, including President Radev, ultimately have the same goal – good neighborliness. The question is how to achieve this in the best possible way. My approach is a little different. As you can see, I am waiting for Dimitar Kovacevski to enter his new role and I am not doing anything else even a day before I visit the Republic of North Macedonia and the fact that I am visiting him shows two things. First is the order, but second from now on, the dialogue, the communication, the connection should not be so fragmented. We need to constantly communicate, to progress. My hopes are that in the coming months I will try to agree on that during our visit, when I come we will make those five working groups – for economy, culture, infrastructure, European integration and history. I do not want only politicians to come and speak, when I talk about economics I want to see all our companies that want and have interest in the Republic of North Macedonia, all companies from your country that have interest in Bulgaria. At that meeting, politicians are not needed, at that meeting, people are needed who want to work, to do business together. Then to meet our infrastructure ministers and to be able to establish a system for those groups to meet once a month, to be able to make a schedule every week to meet a group, so we will realistically make a program of meetings every week, which will we are making progress on all those issues that we have not been able to resolve publicly for 30 years so far.
This means that those groups, commissions, would not be similar to what happened with the historical commission, so we will stop somewhere and then stand, on the contrary, it will be a different dynamic, because the Macedonian politicians and Kovacevski and Maricic announce that this will now be something very different and much more dynamic?
– Much more dynamic, with real results. I sincerely want to see in the first few meetings that we manage to launch the airline between Sofia-Skopje, in the sense I do not want to make a declarative statement that one day the airline will be launched, I want to get on the plane and be able to fly from Sofia to Skopje. I do not want to just talk, to declare that one day there will be, I want to know what the project is, how fast that Sofia-Skopje line can happen. Let’s make accurate calendars for that to happen. The telephone conversation with Dimitar Kovacevski gave me great hope, he left me with the impression that it is very practical. We had a very good and constructive conversation and he sounded that we should do that job and that person as far as I know comes from business, he has a lot of experience in that area. We want results. That with the declarations, the notifications should be behind us. From now on, let’s count the results, which we will realize together.
Given that there have been many declarative statements, we can, we want, we have to…, so a little distrust, because that is the good neighborly climate so far, produced the departure of the deadline. It can be seen positively, maybe less than six months, maybe more than six months. What does the deadline mean for how much we can?
– In fact, we can for the time for which we will finish our work. I want to say that. So now if I say a certain term, six months, we start with the same declarativeness. We need to see what the issues are, how we will solve them. The deadline depends only on the readiness of each party to lend a hand and do the work together. I hope to see that and now there are things that are very clear. I think that there is no person in the Republic of North Macedonia or in Bulgaria who thinks that it is not good to have such an airline between the two countries. These are easy things to do, but they are important. I’m sure businessmen when they meet the only thing they will see is how their markets will grow or where to find the best supplier. Now there are some things that we need to pay a little more attention to, which are more sensitive, in relation to what the Security Advisory Council first stated on the rights of Bulgarians. These are topics that weigh a little more. We need to address them. I think that a friendly, constructive approach should be able to solve both easy and difficult topics. But that’s why the most important thing is to have trust and I hope that we will build that trust with the things we do together.
We are aware that there are difficult and easy questions, we absolutely agree, but how many of those “difficult questions” are really difficult questions, how many of those “difficult questions” are some kind of departure or reversal of the process, because there areAt both light and heavy. Yes, a lot of things are resolved by compromise, but are they just a form of standing still, or are they really difficult questions?
– I think that with a constructive dialogue all those issues are solvable. I think we do not have an unsolvable question. The only thing we need to do is build the trust that needs to be built between our governments, and the second is to push the bigger context. The bigger context is how much we can actually get in the end, both the Republic of North Macedonia and Bulgaria from that joint work. So when we put it in context, why if we talk only about difficult problems and forget about everything else, somehow everyone sharpens and everyone emphasizes: wow, what a big problem. But when we talk about how much together we can get from a good neighbor, then all those problems that seem difficult, very difficult, in fact their place in the common relationship becomes smaller.
Of course. I recently spoke with some Macedonian leaders in the same context and their statement was that there are many destructive forces that influence the processes. We tried to define whether they are from the inside, whether they are from the outside, on which side they are раат They simply block the processes and if we add the coalition capacities of both the Bulgarian Government and the Macedonian Government, then the political profit that everyone is trying to get from this package ли Will we have the strength to go in the direction you say is: .. let’s see the beautiful things?
– I hope that in fact we have so much to gain together from that good neighborliness, that even certain groups of people in both countries, who think that good neighborliness is not good for them, politically or for some other reason, if we include them in the whole context, I hope they will remain a small voice in the common idea that we should work together. There are things that are clean слам I think that even difficult issues if we look at them in the most reasonable way, for example, I am sure that no one in Bulgaria, no one in the Republic of North Macedonia, thinks that, for example, discrimination or hate speech is a good thing . No one can think that. Thus, if we manage to define exactly what those problems are and where they come from, then their solutions become easier. The other is, which I think both countries have as a problem, and I think I will be able to help from our experience of European integration for the Republic of North Macedonia. You know, my government came up with the idea of ”zero corruption.” So we need to clean it up, I believe in both Bulgaria and the Republic of North Macedonia… And the whole Balkans… To show that it is not a local problem. We need to cleanse all those who earn on the backs of our peoples. Because there is a small group of people who make money through corruption at the expense of everyone else. And I think they are part of the destructive elements that are connected and that raise the question of whether good neighborliness between the two countries is good or not. Many of these same groups are also linked to internal corruption in the countries. And I think that if together we can say: NO to corruption, NO to discrimination, NO to disrespect for human rights, YES to good neighborliness, YES to common ties, YES to the common economy, and fit them into that framework, the dialogue will be very faster and people who have not chosen these positions will understand us much better. So, if we can do that together, I think it will be much more beneficial for both countries.
Something that is honestly an insult to tell you, a few years ago I was at Harvard University and one of the professors of economics talked about Central America and said, in Central America there one of the countries has elements of Balkanization. I say, what is Balkanization? He says, it is the economic term for disharmony, when two groups, close countries do not coordinate well. I was ashamed. I say to myself, it is not possible for our region, our Balkans, our countries, to be given as an example of discord and that the word they use at Harvard be with the name of the Balkans. So, what time is it to change what Balkanization means? I would hope that after a while, when Balkanization is mentioned, there will be talk of a change in the way some countries can start working together. And if we imagine it as a whole, the Balkans are 65 million people, that is one France. Imagine if we have open markets, if we work together, if we respect each other, there is zero discrimination, we have cleared corruption… what would the Balkans look like. There are so many things and so much we can gain from such a vision, it is simply time to roll up our sleeves and start acting.
In the same context are the nine billion euros that should come from the EU for the purpose of integration in the Balkans, and not for disintegration. And what would that investment mean, say, for the Balkans in general?
– I think that is the other thing, which is a fact. We have all the assumptions to be a rich region, a really rich region. We are close to the largest market in the world, the European market. We have a lot of smart people. I believe that there are many smart people in the Balkans. It is no coincidence that we are good at math, physics ме We have a fertile country in the Balkans, we have good places for tourism, but why, we are at one of the lowest levels in Europe in terms of economic development? Because of two things. One problem is that corruption in the Balkans is something that is somehow allowed and considered simply part of the region and the second is that we do not coordinate enough in the Balkans.
Maybe because of that, if we can generally define the Balkan voter, they usually always vote against, not for, because they are against the elite, it does not matter who else will come, only youе not to be?
– And that is true. And in fact it is very interesting, I watched a survey, in the European Union people ask: How self-critical are you and how much do you criticize everyone else? Finland came in first place, where they are the most self-critical and least criticized of all others. Here in our region, we criticize everyone else much more, and we are the least self-critical. In fact, in order to make a difference, each of us needs to start being self-critical and then criticize the others. I hope that we can use that approach in our conversations and make sure that each of us completes our homework first, before pointing the finger at the other and saying why you did not do it. So, I hope that we will have a constructive dialogue and I believe that there is much greater potential in the Balkans, and even more between our two countries.
We have to say, here is gasification, energy packages… why would not the whole package come through Strumica from Petrich just a few kilometers?
– Yes, exactly like that. I mean, the fact that we now talk and understand each other, without the need for an interpreter between us. The fact that the tastes and interests of the people are very much in common with us. You know, one of our MPs is Hristo Petrov, who is a rapper. He says “my colleague from the Republic of North Macedonia and I can do a joint concert, we are very respected”. In all fields, we have the preconditions for great good neighborliness. Now it is up to the politicians to do their job.
How?
– And we will do that. Starting with the working groups, through dialogue on the main things with a direct focus on real results.
Is there pressure on Bulgaria, because there are some claims that say “Bulgaria is not so против “And it may be seizing the moment, but some European countries are also hiding behind the enlargement of the Balkans.” On the other hand, they say “no, Bulgaria is the only one and the only one that stops those processes, no one else”. Albania, let’s say the whole package, Rama said that “in six months if it is not resolved, we will go alone.” Today we have a message from the United States that “it will not be possible to go it alone and that it will have to go together”, as well as all the efforts that are being made, so the French presidency of the EU, Macron… all that ambience, will it help or will it delay? Is it pressure or is it really a response to everything that happens?
– What I believe is that in the end, we do not depend on other forces and countries that have interests, but it depends on us. So, the truth is that we are neighbors and our relationships depend on ourselves. I personally know, and I am sure with you Dimitar Kovacevski, we do not depend on who says what and each one of us has his own responsibility to finish that work. In other words, for me personally, it does not matter who will call or say do this-do that. It is important for me to be sure that we are doing the right things, in the right way and… yes, the world is global and has different interests, but I think that is something else in the Balkans. We need to tell ourselves that our affairs depend on us. We should not blame or wait, or someone to save us, or someone to help us. That’s enough. We have to do our job ourselves. I say the same about Bulgaria when we talk about corruption. We are waiting for what Europe will say, but what Europe means to us, we need to deal with corruption for the Bulgarian people, not why a report will be written in Europe. We had a very interesting conversation now. There are some big funds from the recovery program and we are talking to the European Commission, and they tell us “the speed with which we will release your money will depend on how fast you will progress in the fight against corruption in Bulgaria”. I laughed and said “look, the whole package of the EU in that plan is ten percent of our economy, I have to deal with corruption not for that ten percent, I have to deal with 100 percent”. It is the same for your policy, I believe that there are all kinds of interests, but still, the responsibility is ours and we have to do our job.
With what message will you go, will you take a document to Kovacevski? There is a lot of speculation in Macedonia that there is some kind of annex agreement, some kind of agreement in relation to the existing…
– No no. I go only with a constructive tone and readiness to start working together. I do not have a document ready or anything, because all those documents have no point, if we do not give them real motivation that we have to do the job. I suggest that we leave the documents as a second step, and start first, so that there is something we will write about in the next document. Otherwise, the danger is that we will write a document and after that. Here, the task is to make a program, to make the working groups, to start a dialogue, to have a sense of mutual trust and that there are good intentions from both sides and to set goals, which we want to achieve in the shortest possible time. .
Is the Eurozone close to Bulgaria?
– I hope that in 2024 we will enter, that is the goal set by the Government. What we need to do is to communicate with the Bulgarian people, not to be afraid of that change and to understand what it means. Because, as we see, now with vaccines and for the eurozone, there are groups of people who use the fears of the common people to make political points. There are people who say “no, it is bad to enter the eurozone” and there are people who say “you should not be vaccinated”, and it is good for Bulgaria to be part of the eurozone and increase the percentage of vaccinated people. Therefore, it can not be simply said that it is good, but it should be communicated, so that people understand and that is the second great force in our dialogues. We need, above all, to convince both our peoples how important it is to have good neighborliness, so that we do not allow certain groups of people to make the program for all of us. If we focus on good neighborliness, human rights, non-discrimination, economic development, compromise and dialogue when we talk about history, then we will move forward quickly.
It is no coincidence that I started the interview at the age of 30, so let’s see now what after 30 years it happens. Obviously, for those 30 years, not much was done, that is, nothing was done, and that was my question in that context. If we get stuck again now, we have a commission, so that commission will be evaluated by someone else, and then someone else will evaluate it, so is it progress, is it a setback… then I think that we will need another 30 years. The head of the whole process, the beginning of the negotiations and the open overcoming of the differences, I think that is the direction in which we should move.
– The world is moving very fast to lose periods of 30 years. Neither the Republic of North Macedonia nor the Republic of Bulgaria can afford to lose such a long period. Unfortunately, the truth is that we have lost and we have made big mistakes in the last 30 years. Not only in foreign policy, but also in domestic policy. Many things could have been done better. Therefore, in a year when we look back, when we were responsible, to say we made a change.
Source: MIA
